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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
438
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Posted - 2014.12.18 17:46:29 -
[1] - Quote
Generally the balance concept for making combat recons invisible to dscan is going to be completely invaluable, especially for lowsec in fw complexes. I can see the curse ruining some peoples' day quite handily with that. That being said, here are my thoughts on the balance pass, as well as my concerns for the ones that STILL do need fixing:
-The Pilgrim and Curse changes look great; they both benefit immensely from the cap buff due to their focus on neuts, and the dscan invisibility is going to be invaluable in FW for the curse. Neut range bonus on the pilgrim is going to be absurdly fun; kiting pilgrim will now be a thing, so hunting with one solo is going to be even more of an option.
-The Falcon and Rook are great for jamming, but they generally suck for combat. The falcon is superb in its ability to ambush with ecm, but it has little in the way of offensive capability. Something that would help it out quite a bit I think would be giving it a full drone bay like the rook has, and swapping that 5% damage per level bonus into a RoF bonus. The rook in particular needs a serious buff to its powergrid; This is such a serious issue that I would be alright with passing over the falcon changes as long as the rook got at least 750 PG or more.
-While the Arazu didn't get changed since the patch due to it being an alright place where it is, I would like to see either its hybrid bonus get switched to RoF like the falcon, or consider switching it over to a drone boat like the pilgrim. It would better, I think to see the gallente get a dedicated drone cloaky to offset the powerhouse that is the pilgrim. I will also reiterate concerns being voiced over the Lachesis' slot layout. it should get at least one slot from its mids moved down to a low slot, as it should have at least some viability with armor.
-The changes to the Rapier and Huginn are exactly where they were needed; the rapier as a missile boat makes sense, and actually gives it decent attack power and revises its role to one as a potential solo/small gang ship since can actually threaten with its missiles now. The Huginn's dropping of the split slot layout is nice, but it doesn't go far enough. Go the whole 9 yards and give it a 5th turret slot; you did it on the lach you can do it on the Huginn.
Overall, I think these changes are a step in the right direction. The extra capacitor was an excellent idea to port over from the HAC and electronic frigate rebalance, and in my mind complements their t2 roles quite nicely. It will remain to be seen whether the dscan invisibility will be useful and balanced, or OP as hell and abused to absurd levels (I know I wlll be using the pilgrim and curse a lot after the patch myself).
CCP Rise, PLEASE consider the changes to the caldari and gallente recons. They need some serious help in the combat and fitting department, and with how stronk the other recons are getting the falcon could definitely get by with a small dps buff without breaking the game. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
438
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 17:57:49 -
[2] - Quote
Stacy Lone wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners Have you considered the implications this will have for wspace? I mean it might work for 0.0 where you can see that *something* is there through local, but in wspace, this will be absolutely OP and hilarious. No local, not even DScan anymore, how are you supposed to even get any intel? The only way to detect such a ship is by having either eyes on all wholes (requires multitude of characters) and thus seeing it enter or by constant combat probing, which can be seen by the enemy. I fear that this will make this ship far out of line in wspace, where intel is already harder to get than in 0.0. inb4 spider-tanking curse roaming games for wh pve |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
438
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 18:11:51 -
[3] - Quote
Lorac Gemini wrote:Surprised there's more WH tears than FW tears here. Figured FW farmers not being able to see a recon on dscan would make them like this change less. That's because we'll be using them more often; general equipment upgrades benefit BOTH sides of the war, so we rarely complain about power creep if the races we like get their ships upgraded. Even though the caldari recons could use a fitting buff, the cap regen bonus and the wonders that will be amarr recon will be excellent. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
438
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 18:18:10 -
[4] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Scheulagh Santorine wrote:CCP Rise wrote: Role Bonus: Cannot be detected by directional scanners
Oh, yes, yes, YES, CCP, YEEES, YEEEES, So yes, YES yes SO YEESSSS.... Aaaaahhh. Yes. Thank you. I have a solo rook fit I wanna show you that I'll be flying after this... |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
438
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 18:22:42 -
[5] - Quote
Psianh Auvyander wrote:I am concerned with the Pilgrim after these changes. Its unique nature is gone now, and I'd really like to see this revisited.
Instead of essentially copying the Curse, I sincerely urge you to consider finding new, interesting ways to implement the Pilgrim. Its heavy bonus to neutralizing strength is still part of its core, I believe, and while it certainly was struggling, this doesn't provide us with a great choice. Instead, choosing between the Pilgrim and Curse is going to boil down to: do I need a cyno?
Perhaps let it focus more on the tracking disrupters, utilizing them for their survival more than they do now. Regardless, I do hope you'll revisit this hull and help it find a unique place. Or just remove the TD bonus and swap it for a neut amount. Or keep the neut range and drop a mid for a high. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
438
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 18:36:08 -
[6] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:That enormous, world-shattering THUMP you just heard was the ball being dropped big-time on the Pilgrim rebalance. Why take away the one thing it was actually good at to give it something that it desperately doesn't need? Ashs and neut Legions already vastly, wildly overshadow Pilgrims in small-gang armor fleets. This range change isn't going to do a thing about that... while taking away its one solid weapon when used in ultra-small gang and solo ratter ganking. What good is a range bonus gonna do for a cloaky ship?
I'm incredibly sad the Rook didn't get a RLML bonus to go with its HML/HAM bonus. This sounds OP but it really isn't: a RLML Rook isn't even close to a good option right now, giving only 130 DPS (and long reload time) versus 190 (and much better alpha) for the HML version. So add this bonus, please. That would make it a viable take-along on small-gang RLML Caracal/Cerb fleets.
I'm also incredibly sad and confused that the Huginn/Rapier weapon bonuses have been flip-flopped. TP-bonused missiles were the only thing that made the Huginn interesting. This profile should have been improved, not eliminated. What was the justification for doing this, if you don't mind my asking?
I'm torn on the invisible-to-dscan thing. It feels OP, particularly in w-space. It also makes me nervous because you guys don't have a good strategy around "What intelligence tools should there be in EVE?" So you probably shouldn't be screwing around with the intel tools we do have until you know what the strategy is going to be. -I agree with you on the pilgrim; it should either drop a mid for a high or lose the TP bonus for neut amount; it's being half-assed and nothing good will come of that. That being said, if we're forced to accept this, i can see it being useful for blops and disruptor-range kiting in pvp.
-The rook not only needs a RLM bonus, but it also needs a helluva lot more PG; a base of 750 would be perfect, but more to the point, something needs to be done with the falcon. A RoF bonus for hybrids and a bigger drone bay would be excellent; it's just worrisome that the force recons got so little attention in this patch apart from the rapier.
-I need to point this out since it keeps popping up in this thread like a demented gopher and needs to be put down: The Huginn should not get missiles. Core Complexion ships in this game have missiles as part of their identity with the new balance meta, so Boundless Creation ships shouldn't be getting it at all in any instance. You want a TP bonus on a t2 missile cruiser? Tough sh*t! Caldari are the ones who need the bloody TP bonuses to compliment their missiles; minmatar just needs something else like web strength or extra combat usability. Web range is a bonus as effective if not more so in pvp since it is the literal definition of range control. They should have fixed this a LONG time ago but it's never once been addressed. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
438
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 18:50:10 -
[7] - Quote
BKuCKy wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote: I fear that this will make this ship far out of line in wspace, where intel is already harder to get than in 0.0.
Lol no-scan recons is a death to WH carebears. Less WH carebears -> more price on T3 ships -> more $ players spend for PLEX -> PROFIT for CCP! While I agree with the quoted statement, I did actually say it. Please fix your quotes. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
440
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 23:41:03 -
[8] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:-I need to point this out since it keeps popping up in this thread like a demented gopher and needs to be put down: The Huginn should not get missiles. Core Complexion ships in this game have missiles as part of their identity with the new balance meta, so Boundless Creation ships shouldn't be getting it at all in any instance. You want a TP bonus on a t2 missile cruiser? Tough sh*t! Caldari are the ones who need the bloody TP bonuses to compliment their missiles; minmatar just needs something else like web strength or extra combat usability. Web range is a bonus as effective if not more so in pvp since it is the literal definition of range control. They should have fixed this a LONG time ago but it's never once been addressed. Hm. You raise a good point about the corporate tendencies. I p.much never think about that (frankly, because I think it adds very little to the game). This does pretty efficiently neuter the Huginn, though. Rapier or Lach will be better for anything that I can think of off the top of my head. Am I missing a use case, perhaps in FW? pssh. The Lach will get great for those nano-shield gangs and nothing else. Lach needs a 4th (or 5th) low and a bloody damage bonus. The balance pass on the caldari and gallente recons was substandard at best and absurdly lazy at worst. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
440
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 06:46:43 -
[9] - Quote
MaxPower 519 wrote:Morwen Lagann wrote:Pilgrim without its neut amount bonus? One word: Ugh.
If you absolutely must put a range bonus on it, make it a small one and keep the amount one. Don't neuter the thing it was good at. With this change it's just a weak Curse with a cloak. Which isn't all that big a ~thing~ with the whole "invisible to d-scan" bonus that you want to give to combat recons. With these changes there'd be even fewer reasons to fly a Pilgrim than there are right now. As a Pilgrim pilot I would agree with this. I would like it if they just dropped the TD bonus and went for neut range and amount. Probably won't happen since TD's are the 'primary' ewar system for amarr. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
440
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 06:54:16 -
[10] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Kontraband Venning wrote:I don't normally post or get too involved in the rage over changes but as a FW small gang pilot I just couldnt stay quiet. This change will be terrible in the fw zone.
Small gang/solo rules for fw space after this change.
Never fly anything larger then what fits in a small. Otherwise you will be jumped. Never warp into a medium with others in system. Never sit in a medium. Never sit outside of a plex. Move out.
Or bring combat probes. Or, you know...friends? Aside from the curse, there's really not much that can stand up to a small, disciplined frig gang. |
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Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
440
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 22:54:19 -
[11] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:TuCZnak wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:3) Both fighting parties are free to use them Why nerf Ishtars, both parties are free to use them, right? Balancing is about giving people options and not making bunches of ships entirely useless. Ishtars are currently pretty strong compared to all other hacs, but do you seriously think that if this change is confirmed everybody will fly just combat recons? Ishtars by themselves are not OP. Ishtars with sentries are since it's sentry drones on the ishtar that is the problem, not the ship per se. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
447
|
Posted - 2014.12.29 10:01:42 -
[12] - Quote
ivona fly wrote:Quote: ROOK Caldari Cruiser Bonuses: 7.5% bonus to kinetic missile damage (was 5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire) 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer activation cost
Recon Ships Bonuses: 30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength 10% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile max velocity
Slot layout: 5H, 7M, 3L; 2 turrets, 5 launchers Fittings: 680 PWG(+80), 600 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2050(+262) / 965(+9) / 960(+359) Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1250(+187) / 3.93/s(+.83) Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 194(+24) / .61 / 10.76s(-.04s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 150km / 259 / 10 Sensor strength: 32 Gravimetric Signature radius: 170(-3)
Please no, I hate this one damage type thing, and seeing as you say the changes are in part, to allow it to fight vs T3 and T2 well : Ishtar, Eagle, Cerb, Tengu and proteus will not even take damage from it because of 90% resists. and outside the Loki (used instead of recon) and Legion they are what I see used the most in these types of battles. Well seen as you are not giving them any tank none of my my post matters, they will just get crushed in fleets now anyway put whatever weapons on them and leave them as the paranoia-cons :) While it is lamentable for a variety of reasons to be locked into a single damage bonus, the fact remains that it is actually quite a lot more viable this way as a RLM boat than even the Caracal to an extent. The straight single damage bonus means that in addition to not having to worry about swapping between multiple ammo types, the alpha damage without the RoF bonus means you do more with less, so you the missiles you DO have before the reload timer cuts out count for more. I wish they'd give it a bonus to light missile velocity, tho. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
447
|
Posted - 2014.12.29 10:08:10 -
[13] - Quote
Shaleb Heworo wrote:It is NOT aybout fw complexes. If you enforce uncertainty on people they will just retreat to the next level of relative certainty meaing they won't warp to places without preprobing it. This will severly limit the freedom of movement for small gangs and solo players since the smaller the gang the less likely they can afford a dedicated prober/fit an expanded probe launcher on their breacher
You have to give people TOOLS that create margin for error and you have to create and environnement where people move freely under the pretense of relative security. I'm sorry, but there seem to be basic misundertstandings of player/human behaviour that drive these changes. It's really hard to watch. I really think this is a serious misconception on yours and a lot of other peoples' part. The dscan immunity won't magically change how people like myself in FW play mainly due to the fact that we either travel in groups or the stuff we fly solo is either very cheap or very mobile. Cowering in fear over combat recons is laughably stupid since you can either get friends or fight in one of the smaller complexes. It literally changes nothing for how we do things, other than getting a surprise fight or two. At most it makes cruiser fights in complexes a little more interesting, since while we have to watch out for them bringing combat recons to the fight, the same deal wtih with arazus and falcons currently exists anyway, so it's a non-issue. I predict a lot more Curses being used for the cruiser fleets, I think. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
452
|
Posted - 2014.12.30 22:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Looking forward to setting up some traps in low sec with combat recons.
3 of you in local. Put 3 cheap mining barges in the belt/ice field.
Get into your CR's and sit and wait for them to warp to what looks like a mining fleet. Get two buddies with you so the number of ships on dscan equals amount of people in local.
Or better yet, if oyu live out there just ditch the ships in the belt and get into the CR's. You'd be amazed at how many people take that bait since it's EXACTLY what it looks like to them. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
459
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 02:55:44 -
[15] - Quote
PastyWhiteDevil wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:PastyWhiteDevil wrote: this is quite literally my favorite ship in game. please don't ruin it. lest we forget that roden favors MISSILES
The Roden missiles brain-bug has been stupid since the day it appeared. It's only taken like 5 years to get it squashed - now (as per my ancient 'Gallente Mk II' thread) at least there is some sense restored to the Gallente line: Duvolle - Blasters Roden - Railguns Creodron - Drones an un-damage-bonused rail lachesis is going to be absolute crap. secondly, weapon types are not split like that. it's hybrids, missiles, and drones. for example you don't have amarr ships that are considered to be pulse or beam laser. you have amarr laser ships, drone ships, and missile ships. the roden missile "brain-bug" needs to be expanded upon. give them the option to fit more missiles. I would love to see a missile ares -- it might actually be worth flying if you could missile fit it. I'm sorry but you're wrong with making the comparison between lasers and hybrids. Caldari get ishukone which is exclusively bonused around rails, with the double range bonus. The problem with it is that they're trying to shoehorn bonuses into a ship where it doesn't work in the least bit with only 2 combat skills...primary skills for Roden should be range and damage, not range and tracking. Rails are applicable mainly when they have decent alpha which the lach won't be doing.
What will likely happen is you'll have the Lach have a web and be blaster fit, so anything that comes into close range gets smoked by its fast-tracking blasters. Sure rails are great for fleet when you can hit everything with it, but you'll be doing sh*t for dps with them.
That said, I would like to see the falcon turned into a Lai Dai boat and given missiles. It has the worst offensive power out of all of these recons by an absolutely pathetically large margin. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
461
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 19:18:37 -
[16] - Quote
Just logged in today after patching, and I would like to say that the rook didn't get updated. Can anyone tell me if this is a bug, or a mistake of some kind? I seriously hope that update didn't get pulled at the last minute. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
461
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 21:13:07 -
[17] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: we told you Rise. Solution: mob the **** out of them with a frig fleet and shower yourself and your buds with expensive killmails. Just be sure to send the right guys in beforehand to get point... |
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